If you believe in a creator of some kind, the issue of “respect” only comes up if you also choose to believe that the existance of said creator demands any attention on your part. Many of us (me included) have been unable to find enough faith to “believe” in a God, but I also cannot say for sure that one does not exist. I guess that gives me the label “Agnostic”. What I have concluded, however, is that even though there may have been an entity that is somehow responsible for our Universe, I can see no evidence that it has any further awareness or concern for us poor mortals. That being the case, neither worship nor “respect” enters into the discussion. I think it is fair to say that you believe in your God. Any issues you may have are not with Him, but with all of the man-made religions that have sprung up over the millennia. What they may have told you about the nature of God and/or how you must try to interact with Him seems to be the most likely source for any lack of “respect” you may be feeling.
If you believe in the existence of God but do not respect him, perhaps you would be an antitheist. If you are unsure agnosticism is an honest postion to hold. Perhaps you are actually a disgruntled deist?
Are you feeling or experiencing any compulsions to believe? Simply curious? Feeling guilty for not caring? You may be in transition or having a conversion crisis.
Simply disgruntled with humans? Welcome to the club. I work on this constantly. I love humans and humanity generally, but specific cases are a bit more difficult. I am a natural recluse who chooses human associations because to follow my inclinations will dehumanize me. I have friends and family not because I need them, but because I choose them.
I am not always sure why. Somehow, intuitively I grasp that to abandon my humanity would reduce me. I want to be more fully human, and so I make the choice to associate.
Sadly, Harvey, I distanced myself from religion a long time ago. I hold my faith close to my heart while I have been apart from churches. I cannot blame the church for this latest failing.
Disgruntled theist, Mike? Yeah, that sounds about right to describe me right now. I have always been a disgruntled human. I think humans, as a whole, are a despicable bunch. We have no respect or caring for each other (in general, of course). But I have always truly believed that God loves us and does what is best for us, even when we don’t understand.
This isn’t about humanity, or some global act, or a general seemingly lack of involvement in our existence. No, this is more personal than that. I know, deep down inside, that it is petty and wrong of me to be bitter over this. I know I should follow my own advice and remember that it is not about me, but rather about a bigger picture that I do not understand. And yet none of that stops me from feeling betrayed in a way that precludes any level of respect right now.
Uruk, I think it was a lot of things. The catalyst, I think was with a very good friend who prayed and prayed over an issue. Not asking for it to be solved to her liking. Not asking for things to change. But seeking understanding and comfort. Things prayer are supposed to bring you. Things we are promised we will receive via prayer. And for weeks, she prayed, and then? Nothing. No comfort. No acceptance. No understanding. It was cruel and it was not worthy of respect. I don’t understand His reasoning in not providing base comfort when we need it much and I don’t respect it.
I feel a loving God would do at least that much. I don’t ask to change the tides, I ask only that the tides not knock me over without offering a hand to help me up.
I think I understand where you’re coming from, Lion.
In thinking about the people for which I’ve lost respect, I see that they all have some things in common. For one thing, they didn’t respond the way I expected. But more than that– their character was never truly what I had believed it to be. I finally saw their character was lacking and their actions started to show me that they were not truly the good people as I had thought. And they probably never were good people.
I longed for someone to mentor me in my high school years and early adulthood. A “minister” befriended me and did just that. But, he was only gradually brainwashing me so that he could use me. Friends and family finally pried me away from him. But, I always thought my loved ones were wrong about him and over reacted.
Years later, I’m in court as a potential witness because he had abused his wife and children, yet was fighting for custody for his kids. His wife was finally leaving him. One child of theirs ended up in the hospital because he beat him so bad. I saw the pictures– the bruises. I knew his kids. I knew his wife. I didn’t know him until that day.
All the respect I had for that man was lost.
In the case of God, you already know how I think. But, I don’t want to take this as an opportunity to pry you away from your faith. Rather, I’ll suggest that perhaps some character building will eventually come out of this, if indeed God is allowing this difficulty in your life and in your friend’s life.
That’s what I would say or think if I were still a Christian. And should I be wrong about God not existing, that’s about the only answer I can conceive if God is truly benevolent and loving.
Have you come to a place where that line of thinking no longer satisfies you? Does that comfort you now, or does that sound more like a canned response that is too simplistic for the problem it tries to address?
I understand that line of thinking. And in many situations, it is still my response and I do believe it. The problem is, He took it too far this time. Because the situation is not wholly mine, I don’t feel comfortable discussing what actually happened but when all we want is a little comfort, that should never be denied. I know what it feels like to pray for comfort and peace and receive it and I now know what it feels like to pray for it and be denied.
My loss of respect here does nothing to change my respect for Christ. I still do now, and sincerely always will, respect the lift Christ led. He was good, had a good message, and did good deeds. I think everyone can agree on that. Feed the hungry, love your neighbor, turn the other cheek. He certainly comforted those that others didn’t think deserved it…
Comfort may come yet, if you feel that it’s not too late for it. Where that comfort comes from, I can’t say. But I hope you and your friend find peace regardless.
I always find the way you separate Christ from God very interesting. Coming from an Apostolic Pentecostal background, your separation of Jesus and God is foreign to me. This is not a criticism or fault finding. Your perspective is just new and interesting to me.
And for what it’s worth, as long as you should maintain your belief in God, I hope he regains your respect. I can’t imagine it’s easy to pay homage to a being that you have lost some respect for.
I also shared my story to point out that perhaps the things that make you lose respect for God isn’t as bad as that miscreant I described in my last comment.
Though some would read the Old Testament and disagree with that notion.
At any rate . . . may not only comfort, but better circumstances come to you and your friend.
Thank you Uruk. Things will turn around. Other parts of life are going very well, and I truly do have little to bemoan these days. But this is a rather significant issue.
You aren’t the only one who is fascinated by my separation of God and Christ. I don’t know where it comes from. It has absolutely no Biblical support. I have just always gravitated more towards Christ’s message. I think the hardest part for me is that I did not lose my faith. That would have been easy, I think. Well, not easy, but easier. I could reconcile that I just no longer believed. But I do.
It is kind of crazy, actually. I was so sick when this all first started. I had high fevers etc and when I was healthy again I tried to reconcile all of these issues with the illness. I told myself I didn’t really think this way – it was the fever! But that isn’t true. And I don’t think the loss of respect was as sudden as I like to believe it was either. I’ve questioned Him for a long time and that makes it all the harder.
I hope I do respect Him again one day. I want to. But right now, I don’t.
TheNate
4 months ago
How does one express the lack of respect?
Harvey
4 months ago
Lion:
If you believe in a creator of some kind, the issue of “respect” only comes up if you also choose to believe that the existance of said creator demands any attention on your part. Many of us (me included) have been unable to find enough faith to “believe” in a God, but I also cannot say for sure that one does not exist. I guess that gives me the label “Agnostic”. What I have concluded, however, is that even though there may have been an entity that is somehow responsible for our Universe, I can see no evidence that it has any further awareness or concern for us poor mortals. That being the case, neither worship nor “respect” enters into the discussion. I think it is fair to say that you believe in your God. Any issues you may have are not with Him, but with all of the man-made religions that have sprung up over the millennia. What they may have told you about the nature of God and/or how you must try to interact with Him seems to be the most likely source for any lack of “respect” you may be feeling.
mlockridge01
4 months ago
If you believe in the existence of God but do not respect him, perhaps you would be an antitheist. If you are unsure agnosticism is an honest postion to hold. Perhaps you are actually a disgruntled deist?
Are you feeling or experiencing any compulsions to believe? Simply curious? Feeling guilty for not caring? You may be in transition or having a conversion crisis.
Simply disgruntled with humans? Welcome to the club. I work on this constantly. I love humans and humanity generally, but specific cases are a bit more difficult. I am a natural recluse who chooses human associations because to follow my inclinations will dehumanize me. I have friends and family not because I need them, but because I choose them.
I am not always sure why. Somehow, intuitively I grasp that to abandon my humanity would reduce me. I want to be more fully human, and so I make the choice to associate.
Mike
the lion
4 months ago
Sadly, Harvey, I distanced myself from religion a long time ago. I hold my faith close to my heart while I have been apart from churches. I cannot blame the church for this latest failing.
Disgruntled theist, Mike? Yeah, that sounds about right to describe me right now. I have always been a disgruntled human. I think humans, as a whole, are a despicable bunch. We have no respect or caring for each other (in general, of course). But I have always truly believed that God loves us and does what is best for us, even when we don’t understand.
This isn’t about humanity, or some global act, or a general seemingly lack of involvement in our existence. No, this is more personal than that. I know, deep down inside, that it is petty and wrong of me to be bitter over this. I know I should follow my own advice and remember that it is not about me, but rather about a bigger picture that I do not understand. And yet none of that stops me from feeling betrayed in a way that precludes any level of respect right now.
mac
4 months ago
It could be you are starting on a path to spiritual awakening. You may be seeing things now, that you didn’t see before.
Be careful, you might just end up over on this side of the fence with us heathens.
Uruk
4 months ago
Hey Lion, may I ask, what has caused your level of respect to lower towards God?
I’ve been angry at God when I still believed. Bitter. But, I never thought to say that I had lost respect for God. Maybe there is little difference?
Mind sharing what happened or what has occurred to you? Or, is it too private to share in this medium?
the lion
4 months ago
Uruk, I think it was a lot of things. The catalyst, I think was with a very good friend who prayed and prayed over an issue. Not asking for it to be solved to her liking. Not asking for things to change. But seeking understanding and comfort. Things prayer are supposed to bring you. Things we are promised we will receive via prayer. And for weeks, she prayed, and then? Nothing. No comfort. No acceptance. No understanding. It was cruel and it was not worthy of respect. I don’t understand His reasoning in not providing base comfort when we need it much and I don’t respect it.
I feel a loving God would do at least that much. I don’t ask to change the tides, I ask only that the tides not knock me over without offering a hand to help me up.
Uruk
4 months ago
I think I understand where you’re coming from, Lion.
In thinking about the people for which I’ve lost respect, I see that they all have some things in common. For one thing, they didn’t respond the way I expected. But more than that– their character was never truly what I had believed it to be. I finally saw their character was lacking and their actions started to show me that they were not truly the good people as I had thought. And they probably never were good people.
I longed for someone to mentor me in my high school years and early adulthood. A “minister” befriended me and did just that. But, he was only gradually brainwashing me so that he could use me. Friends and family finally pried me away from him. But, I always thought my loved ones were wrong about him and over reacted.
Years later, I’m in court as a potential witness because he had abused his wife and children, yet was fighting for custody for his kids. His wife was finally leaving him. One child of theirs ended up in the hospital because he beat him so bad. I saw the pictures– the bruises. I knew his kids. I knew his wife. I didn’t know him until that day.
All the respect I had for that man was lost.
In the case of God, you already know how I think. But, I don’t want to take this as an opportunity to pry you away from your faith. Rather, I’ll suggest that perhaps some character building will eventually come out of this, if indeed God is allowing this difficulty in your life and in your friend’s life.
That’s what I would say or think if I were still a Christian. And should I be wrong about God not existing, that’s about the only answer I can conceive if God is truly benevolent and loving.
Have you come to a place where that line of thinking no longer satisfies you? Does that comfort you now, or does that sound more like a canned response that is too simplistic for the problem it tries to address?
the lion
4 months ago
I see where you are going with this, Uruk :)
I understand that line of thinking. And in many situations, it is still my response and I do believe it. The problem is, He took it too far this time. Because the situation is not wholly mine, I don’t feel comfortable discussing what actually happened but when all we want is a little comfort, that should never be denied. I know what it feels like to pray for comfort and peace and receive it and I now know what it feels like to pray for it and be denied.
My loss of respect here does nothing to change my respect for Christ. I still do now, and sincerely always will, respect the lift Christ led. He was good, had a good message, and did good deeds. I think everyone can agree on that. Feed the hungry, love your neighbor, turn the other cheek. He certainly comforted those that others didn’t think deserved it…
Uruk
4 months ago
Comfort may come yet, if you feel that it’s not too late for it. Where that comfort comes from, I can’t say. But I hope you and your friend find peace regardless.
I always find the way you separate Christ from God very interesting. Coming from an Apostolic Pentecostal background, your separation of Jesus and God is foreign to me. This is not a criticism or fault finding. Your perspective is just new and interesting to me.
And for what it’s worth, as long as you should maintain your belief in God, I hope he regains your respect. I can’t imagine it’s easy to pay homage to a being that you have lost some respect for.
I also shared my story to point out that perhaps the things that make you lose respect for God isn’t as bad as that miscreant I described in my last comment.
Though some would read the Old Testament and disagree with that notion.
At any rate . . . may not only comfort, but better circumstances come to you and your friend.
the lion
4 months ago
Thank you Uruk. Things will turn around. Other parts of life are going very well, and I truly do have little to bemoan these days. But this is a rather significant issue.
You aren’t the only one who is fascinated by my separation of God and Christ. I don’t know where it comes from. It has absolutely no Biblical support. I have just always gravitated more towards Christ’s message. I think the hardest part for me is that I did not lose my faith. That would have been easy, I think. Well, not easy, but easier. I could reconcile that I just no longer believed. But I do.
It is kind of crazy, actually. I was so sick when this all first started. I had high fevers etc and when I was healthy again I tried to reconcile all of these issues with the illness. I told myself I didn’t really think this way – it was the fever! But that isn’t true. And I don’t think the loss of respect was as sudden as I like to believe it was either. I’ve questioned Him for a long time and that makes it all the harder.
I hope I do respect Him again one day. I want to. But right now, I don’t.